Interview with Rob Keenan - 2402

SPEAKER A Revelation 1211. And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives to the death. Welcome to by the word of their testimony. And here is your host, Kaysie Vokurka. Hello and welcome to the programme. I am so glad you've joined us today for another testimony of how God has worked in amazing ways in someone's life. With me is a special guest, Rob Keenan from Melbourne, and he going to share his story with us today. Rob, thank you so much for coming. Welcome to the programme. SPEAKER B Yeah, thanks for having me on. SPEAKER A You know, it was a real blessing to me to be able to meet you the other week in person at Casey Church, of all places in Melbourne. And you were baptised that day, which was such a high day for you. SPEAKER B Yeah, yeah, it was really a beautiful experience and it had been a long time coming. I'd been thinking about baptism for maybe five years and. Yeah, I really felt like it was the right time for us, though, and we're still buzzing from that experience. It was a really beautiful day. SPEAKER A That's awesome. And it indeed was a very high day. And it was just so encouraging to see how God had worked in your life and in your wife's life as well. And. Yeah, just such an occasion for praising God, really. SPEAKER B Yeah. Amen. SPEAKER A Yeah. And so I'm curious to get to know you a little bit more, and I would like to know, where were you brought up, what's your hometown? And what was that like for you? SPEAKER B Yeah, look, I grew up in Heidelberg in Melbourne. I didn't grow up in a christian household until I was about twelve. Parents got divorced when I was quite young and my mom is a teacher in a public school and quite a staunch atheist and still is. But when I was a teenager, my dad started to wake up to the spiritual realities in this world and found Samothai Adventism, and therefore started taking us to church on Sabbath and. And teaching us Bible stories at night and, yeah, teaching us a little bit about the biblical worldview, which is quite a stark contrast to the worldview you get in the public school education system. SPEAKER C So. SPEAKER A Yeah, yeah. And this was that, I guess, being if you was twelve years old or so, when this happened, like in your teenage years, is when you would have been exposed to all of this stuff. And this is. This would have been quite a contrast to anything you've known before, really? SPEAKER B Yeah. Look, I guess, you know, before that age, you're fairly ignorant and you don't really think too deeply into what the. What the nature of reality is and what, you know, spiritual things mean, but it was certainly a seed planted for sure. SPEAKER A Yeah, yeah. And so when you were growing up with that, like, did you see some changes in your dad when he was going in this direction? SPEAKER B Yeah, look, I think for a long time my dad's a very logical person and really for many years it was probably mostly about head knowledge. And I've seen more spiritual transformation in him in the last few years as opposed to early on. But, you know, these things take time to develop in everyone and we're all on a journey and a walk. And that was part of his journey, was sort of waking up to maybe the satanic powers in this world first. And then once he could recognise the evil, then he was sort of pointed towards God and that's how his journey begun. SPEAKER A Mm, very interesting. And so from your experience in this mix growing up, like obviously in your very young years, you didn't have a christian sort of upbringing, but was there any point in your life in those young days where you were exposed to God or the idea of God and you responded to that? Or did you ever wonder if there's some big being out there at all, anything in that space for you? SPEAKER B Yeah, look, I mean, I guess in those days, even in public school, you had re religious education and that was, I'm not sure exactly what denomination that was run by my primary school, but yeah, we did have religious education every now and then as part of our school and preschool and stuff, you know, they like to do Christmas plays and stories and stuff like that. So I do remember a little bit. SPEAKER C About that sort of stuff, but yeah. SPEAKER B I can't recall it ever making a really deep impression on my mind. SPEAKER A Okay, so it's just another thing amongst all the other things in your life growing up at that time? Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah, yeah. So obviously when your dad was starting to delve into these christian and 7th day adventist ideas and teachings and then taking you to church, how are you responding to that? Because obviously this was his journey at first and he was bringing you along with that. What kind of thoughts were going in your mind? SPEAKER B Yeah, look, I remember when I was sort of late primary school, just starting in high school, just accepting that it was, you know, it's what my father was telling me. It must be true. You don't really question the authority of your parents too much at that age. But I remember there was a pretty, pretty distinct turning point in year seven where another student asked me, you believe in God, don't you? I don't really remember what it was, why? She asked me what the context was. But she asked me this question and I felt this peer pressure of not wanting to, you know, look like a conservative Christian. I wanted to be seen as rebellious and exciting to my classmates. So I said no, even though I knew in my heart that I really did have some sort of faith that there was a God because that was what my dad was teaching me at home. But yeah, I rejected him at that point. And from then on my rebellion against wanting to have any involvement in church and Christianity got more and more strong. And yeah, every Sabbath would be an argument of I don't want to go to church, why do we have to go? I want to hang rather than go and hang out with my friends or whatever. And it got to the point, I remember there was some sort of all day seminar or sermon happening at church, probably when I was about 14 or so. And yeah, my dad had told us we're going to an all day event and it's going to be multiple sermons or whatever. I was very resistant, tried to argue my way out of it, but I couldn't convince him to release me freely of his will. So on Sabbath evening, middle of the night, after I'd gone to bed, I got up and jumped the back fence and walked about five kilometres to a friend's house and just left a note on the pillow telling my dad that I'm all right but I'm running away because I don't want to come to. To church anymore. And from that point he really accepted that I can't force him to go. And if he doesn't want to go, then he can stay home. But he didn't give up on me completely. He's told me that if I wasn't going to come anymore that when I'm staying at home I can't just sit around twiddling thumbs, that I should be watching some videos or sermons. And he. Plenty of different dvd's and stuff to watch things about, like the dangers of rock music. I remember there was a documentary he gave me called Hell's Bells, which was about the dangers of satanism in rock music and gods of the new age. And this is all pretty heavy stuff for 14 year olds to be watching, but it planted a seed in my mind where. Yeah, I guess, you know, I had learned about the fact that there was evil in the world and in the mainstream sort of entertainment industry and the alternative spiritual practises that are so common in the world today. SPEAKER A Yeah. And so I guess this is even though you may have been an unwilling recipient. This was giving some perspectives and knowledge of truth in your life just to plant the seed, obviously, because you were in a position of having a mental block against it, but it didn't stop you from gaining that knowledge. SPEAKER B Yeah, yeah. Look, I was in open rebellion against it, but I always respected my father, and if he told me to do something, I would generally do it, you know, to. SPEAKER A Out of respect for him. SPEAKER B Yeah. Out of a reasonable extent, I would follow his instructions and I wouldn't have. I wouldn't, you know. SPEAKER C Yeah. SPEAKER B Openly defy him. SPEAKER A Yeah. Wow. And so were you the only, were you the only child? Did you have siblings? Was he trying to encourage more of you to come to church? SPEAKER B No, I've got a brother, a younger brother and a younger sister, and they continued to go. I guess they just weren't quite as rebellious and difficult as I was. And they went for quite a few more years until they were a bit older and have then, you know, left, stopped going by their own accord and haven't really come back to church yet or a belief in spiritual things. SPEAKER A Okay, so you were the one who said no very firmly at first, but then have come around and done the opposite. SPEAKER B Yeah, I was the prodigal son for sure. SPEAKER A Ah, dear. So at this time, you're running away from. From anything church wise. You don't want to be involved. You've got your focus in a different area. Is this all still being driven by peer pressure? SPEAKER B Yeah, look, throughout my high school years, definitely looking back and see the peer pressure and wanting to appear as cool and rebellious and things like that to my classmates and peers was definitely a pretty strong motivating factor in what I did with my lifestyle and my choices. I was really pretty obsessed with just never doing any real work, never learning anything at school. All I wanted to do was be the class clown, muck up, have fun. And that eventuated into more serious bad habits as I got older. I started drinking and then smoking marijuana at a pretty young age, which I did for a long time. And, yeah, the more I rejected God, the more strong a hedonistic, self pleasing lifestyle became my main focus. SPEAKER A Hmm mm. And so obviously, you had friends and associates who were also living that kind of life and just supporting. SPEAKER B Yeah, I always. When at that stage, I was really. Yeah. Just seeking out friends that were in the same lifestyle, same. Same mindset. Yeah. Everyone I sort of spent my time with were, were, yeah, marijuana smokers, you know, kids, misfits at school and stuff like that. SPEAKER A And I'm also wondering like, was there anything about God or Christianity adventism that you were exposed to in these early days that sort of, you didn't like? That sort of was also a turning away point or was it? Or was it really just driven by the desire to be cool and following christians things? Wasn't that cool? SPEAKER B Look, yeah, I don't think I knew enough about God to say, oh, look, I don't like him because I think he's a tyrant or anything like that. And I don't think I ever fully gave up a belief that there is a creator. And I never really totally bought into, into the atheistic big bang evolution ideology, but I just put it as far as I could to the back of my mind. I didn't want to know about it. I just wanted to live my life as I please, have fun, chase my girlfriends, chase my mates, going out to parties and having as much worldly pleasure as I could. I really lived just to, to focus my life on when could I have the next fun time, the next high, the next, you know, things like that. SPEAKER A So very much focused in on the moment, what feels good, what, what you can do for the here and now and don't think about any deeper things. SPEAKER B Yeah. And I was, I was quite prideful in being like a bit of a misfit, a bit different, you know, never like, bored into. Yeah, the sort of mainstream ideology always was a bit of a. Had a little bit of a background, probably due to my father, in like conspiracy theories and stuff like that. And I was. I was always a punk and into hardcore music and metal music and stuff like that and wanted to be. To be seen as alternative and different and. But, you know, the more I focus my attention on that stuff, it's full of darkness. You know, the music and the appearance is all based around death and morbid themes and things of this. Although some of them might not encourage, you know, drug use. Plenty of them do you look at all of the. The nineties punk scene and bands and metal bands. A lot of them alcoholics or drug addicts and things like that. So these pretty soon became my formed habits and vices. SPEAKER A So what would you describe your headspace like, how would you describe your headspace with all of those influences in, in your life? SPEAKER B Oh, look. SPEAKER C I was always quite happy. SPEAKER B To live like that. It gave me a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction. I guess that's the thing about sin. It seems fun at the time, like. Yeah, I went through a period where I would self harm and burn big scars in my arms with cigarettes and stuff. Like that. But it was never really because I was truly depressed and wanted to, you know, punish myself or hurt myself to take away the pain of depression. It was just a, you know, a cry for help, a desire to have attention from people. I loved being the centre of attention. I wanted, you know, people to notice me and, you know, think I was a bit, you know, out there or whatever. SPEAKER C So. SPEAKER B Yeah, my headspace was never deeply, you know, depressed or sad, but I was just. Just obsessed with self image and what I was portraying and wanted people to notice me. SPEAKER A Yeah, okay. That's really interesting because, at least from my perspective, with a lot of those scenes where the culture has a lot of preoccupation with death and darkness, I associate that with a lot of depression, which I'm sure does exist in those spaces. But it's interesting that you can have someone like yourself who can be at it with a different sort of mindset in that mix. SPEAKER B Yeah, look, it was very superficial, and I didn't really take anything too seriously. Life was. Was a joke to me. You know, I would, because I was rebelling against Christianity and didn't want to. SPEAKER C Have anything to do with my dad's religion. SPEAKER B I would make signs and display them in school of hail Satan and inverted crosses and stuff like that just because, you know, I thought it was shocking and, you know, I thought it would make people laugh and shocked, but it didn't. Didn't mean anything to me. I wasn't actually going home and worshipping Satan. I was going home and smoking marijuana every night and just relaxing and getting myself in a high and running away from the, you know, the reality of having to work and learn, and that requires effort. I just wanted my life to be easy and fun. SPEAKER A And so as you're going through all of this and you're just living your life for this, did there ever come an inkling or a desire to want something deeper, want something more meaningful? Or did you ever have questions about, is there more to life than this? SPEAKER B Not really. To be honest. For a long time, this life was satisfying enough for me. But it came to a point where God really sent me a wake up call and grabbed me by the shoulders and really shook me to the point where I had to make a decision. So it was in Easter weekend of 2015, I went to a, like, a rave music festival out in the countryside where it was a multiple day event. You stay there and it's basically like, yeah, music festival and an event for people to go and binge on drugs and alcohol and electronic music, basically. Anyway, when I got there, I remember. So we arrived, and I remember noticing as we were pulling in, it seemed fairly insignificant at the time, but I just noticed a woman wearing a shirt that had pagan in massive letters written across the front of it. And I didn't think much of it. I just thought, oh, that's interesting. I remember hearing about these terms, pagan and occult and stuff like that from things that I'd heard about from my father when I was younger. At this point, this is when I would have been about 20, I think about 20 years old after school. So anyway, yeah, I went then. The first day of the festival was just pretty typical stuff, really. Just normally revelry, partying, listening to the music, enjoying the party, things like that. And then on the second day, it was an eclipse. They called it a blood moon. It's when the moon goes red, an eclipse moon. Anyway, about 11:00 in the evening at the time when this eclipse was starting to take place, we were down at the, at the music stage listening to the music and joined the party. And as the moon started to eclipse, they really changed the atmosphere of the music. It went from your typical upbeat dance techno music to all of them. They were, you know, playing these beats, more tribal in nature. And I can remember some lyrics in the, in the song being chanted over and over again about something about ancient times. And it all started to seem a little bit strange and like, what was going on here. And then as the moon, you know, came into the eclipse, and they, they just started playing these deep drive driving bass sounds. And it came to my attention that this stage that they had with these huge speakers was all pointed towards this large hill or mountain behind us that was facing directly up at the moon. And it just hit me like a tonne of bricks. Like, hold on a minute. These people are. This event is like an act of worship of this eclipsed moon. There's something more spiritual going on here. I started to, you know, really, I was, I was panicking. I was going into shock. Like, what's going on? Everything that my dad told me when I was younger is real. These people are worshipping, like, you know, this is idolatry. They're worshipping false gods. They're worshipping the eclipse moon. And, you know, even the, even the music stage tent was like, look demonic as this massive red sheet draped over a skeletal shaped structure. Looked like a demon. And I. Yeah, really, it hit me all of a sudden, like, we're in a spiritual battle here. Like, if these people are worshipping pagan deities and the moon, then that's the sort of stuff that my dad had warned me about. And the videos he'd shown me talked about when I was younger, then that means that God must be real. Christianity is the truth. If he's warned me about this and now I'm witnessing it, then he's right, you know, and I've. I've been ignoring it for so long. So, yeah, really. It really shook me up. I couldn't. I pretty much couldn't talk to anyone for the rest of the festival. I just went back to the campsite and tried to smoke myself out of it and just. Just take myself away from the whole event and. And sit in my van thinking and pondering over this myself and really scared out of my wits. Not so much scared that I thought I was in danger from this demonic worship. And it was really, really strange and clearly spiritual. As soon as they were doing this, within a matter of seconds, a thick fog enveloped the entire entire field paddock that this party was going on in. You couldn't see further than, like, two or three metres in front of your face, and it came in with a matter of. A matter of minutes and got at least, you know, 510 degrees colder. All of a sudden, as this fog moved in over the party and you could see on people's faces that, like, there was. There was something dark there, something demonic. Like the whole. It was clear to me that. That this worship that they were doing was summoning dark forces. And there was, you know, I remember noticing a guy walking around with a heap of animal bones and skulls tied on the bottom on the top of a stick and dragging them around and. SPEAKER C Dancing, you know, with all of these. SPEAKER B Bones and it just seemed dark and not right. I mean, I'd been to other parties and raves and stuff before and, yeah, they're all steeped in spiritualism and mysticism, but this was particularly dark. And as well as it, you know, being maybe more overt and obvious, I think it was, looking back, it was God's holy spirit. You know, opening my eyes to what was really going on. You know, before that, I was living in darkness and I wasn't aware of maybe the things I was getting involved with, but God just used that event at the right place in the right time, and his Holy Spirit spoke to my mind and. And revealed to me what was really going on. And I couldn't unsee it, you know, it really made an impression on me. And I remember at one point in the night, although I was pretty dumb struck, I couldn't really really talk to anyone and enjoy myself. I wasn't having fun at the party anymore, but I turned and said to one of my friends, I think I believe in God. And he sort of looked at me like, where did that come from? What are you talking about? You know, you're the most. Probably thinking, you know, you're the most godless person I know. You're the last person I would expect to say that. But anyway, I remember seeing the sunrise the next morning, and I can clearly, clearly remember that I witnessed it with, like, a new mind and a new perspective of God's glory shining on his creation, that all this stuff wasn't an accident. This isn't just like a playground, but this is. This is what God has created. We're in a creation by an all powerful being that's far, far above us. There's more to life than just humanity and the pleasures of this world. I could see the glory in his creation that next morning. SPEAKER A So all of this is still tapping back into those seeds of knowledge that were planted years before, that tiny bit of awareness of a spiritual thing, which at that time, like a spiritual reality, which at that time, you in your mind, thought, nah, nah, forget about that. And now it suddenly hit you that, hang on a minute, this stuff is real? SPEAKER B Yeah, like a sack of bricks, I tell you. It was. I was in shock. I wanted to leave that festival that night, but I knew that probably wasn't a good idea because I would have still been somewhat intoxicated from the day before anyway. But for the next three, four days or so, I was really still in total shock. I couldn't talk to anyone properly. I was going to work. I couldn't concentrate. I couldn't stop thinking about what had happened. And then about a week later, I went to hang out with my friends again at one of their houses, the same friends that I went to the festival with. And, you know, I wanted. I wanted to. I wanted to convince myself that this, none of this was true. I didn't want to believe it. I didn't want to become a Christian and follow God. It was the last thing I wanted to do. That meant I would have had to change everything about my life. So I sort of had, you know, was trying to convince myself in my mind that maybe you'd imagine that maybe it was to do with some of the drugs that you might have taken or your upbringing, you know, none of that was real. You've just had a delusional experience and imagined it all because of your upbringing. Indoctrination of Christianity is playing tricks on your mind. So I confessed to all my friends that I thought I'd had a bad drug trip and that I'd imagine this satanic experience because that's what I wanted to believe about it. I didn't want to believe that it was real, even though I knew it was. SPEAKER A And you were trying so hard to rationalise it. SPEAKER B Yeah, yeah, I was trying to rationalise it, you know, give it a naturalistic explanation. No, this can't be a spiritual experience. You've just, you know, it's just all these different ideas that your dad's put in your brain from years ago. You've just made it up. Anyway, so I basically expressed this, this idea to my friends that I thought, you know, I'd had a bad, you know, drug experience and, and, you know, had like a form of psychosis or something. Anyway, they, you know, were quite sympathetic and said, you know, oh, yeah, yeah, that sounds terrible. Yeah, a few other people thought it was a bit of a strange, strange party night and stuff as well and, yeah, that. That pretty much was, was enough for me for quite some time. It cemented in my mind that. Oh, yeah, yeah, you just don't have to think about it. That was, that wasn't real. But as much as I wanted to suppress it, I could never really, really shake the thought from my mind. I know not a day went by where I didn't, you know, still think about it and I was still. I was still living my life exactly the same as I was. I was still smoking marijuana every day, going to every party I could, just working at a factory job for the weekend to get my paycheck and spend it on the next good time and, yeah, that went on for about a year or two. During that time I went over to Vietnam for about eight or nine months and lived there living basically one long alcohol and drug binge is just partying with other young tourists and trying to. Just probably trying to drown it all out and forget it all. With as much alcohol and drugs as I could, as I could find, but escape from it, I would still. I would still find myself at the end of the night a lot of time after. After having been drinking all night with all these other tourists sitting on some step out the front of some dive bar somewhere in the. In the red light district in Vietnam talking to some other backpacker about this experience I had and really, you know, yeah, I would still talk about it and I'd be off my. Off my face drunk. But, you know, I guess what some people will say about alcohol is that. SPEAKER C You know, when you. SPEAKER B Alcohol brings out the truth because people can't hold their tongue when they're. When they drink. They don't have any philtre on their mind. So I'd end up spurting this big story out to some person that I hardly knew. And I'd do that regularly. Many times I would talk about it, and I couldn't really get away from it. God was not letting me go that. SPEAKER C Easy by just. SPEAKER B Trying to push it to the back of my mind like I had for years before that. Anyway, it would have been a year. I could find the exact date. You'll find out in a minute why. But it would have been probably around a year later after this event. It would have been in 2016 sometime that I was finally had some alone time. You know, I didn't really spend a lot of time alone. I was always hanging out with my friends or my girlfriend or whatever, you know, avoiding having too much time alone with my thoughts. Anyway, I was home alone by myself. And, you know, I'd been watching testimonies here and there on YouTube and seeing how people from all different walks of life and experiences had been transformed by the power of God, by a relationship with Christ. You know, it. It just was building up on in my mind. SPEAKER C This. SPEAKER B This is real, you know, you're running away from it. And I was like, I was like Jonah being called to go and preach to, to the ninevites, but I was turning and running the other way, but I could not get away. He swallowed me up in the. In a fish in my mind of not being able to. To go anywhere else in my thoughts. It just consumed me. So I finally got on my knees and just said a really simple prayer like, God, I believe you're real. I believe you sent Jesus Christ to die for me and to die for my sins and that, you know, you're my saviour. And instantly. And after I prayed this prayer, I felt this. This warm rush over my whole body of, like, a physical feeling, and as well, just a piece of. I'd finally given in. I'd finally stopped fighting. I'd finally stopped trying to lie to myself about this experience that I knew was clearly real. And, yeah, within. Not too long after saying this prayer, I felt a strong compulsion in my mind that I'm serious about this. God knew that one of my biggest fears was admitting that I believed in God and in Christ. To my peers, to my friends that were all atheists, I grew up in public school my whole life. So there's not many christians there, and if there was, I wasn't hanging out with them. So all of my friend group were atheists and just other, you know, partygoers and into all that sort of stuff. So I knew in my mind, and the Holy Spirit was speaking to me, saying, you know, if you're serious about this, you gotta, you gotta admit it, you gotta make it public to your friend group. And I felt that he was telling me that I got to get on Facebook. And although that sounds silly, it's one of the most public atmospheres that we put ourselves in these days and public platforms. So I felt that he was telling me, if I'm serious about it, I got to confess that Jesus is Lord as a status on Facebook. So with how much courage did that. SPEAKER A Take for you all along, the opinion of your peers has been like one of the strongest motivators for you. SPEAKER B It was pretty much my God. Yeah, there was the desire to have fun, but the opinion of my friends pretty much my God to me. So, yeah, I didn't want to do it and I tried to fight it, but I knew that I've just said this prayer. I've just finally given up. I can't stop here. I can't get halfway and then rejected. He's now asked me to do something or to do something about it. So I did that. I just, I just made a status on Facebook, said Jesus is Lord. It probably went fairly unnoticed by most people. Got a, got a couple of strange comments, like question marks, like, from, from a few people that probably weren't really my really close friends, but probably, probably turned a few heads, like, what is, what is Robin about? SPEAKER A What's he doing now? SPEAKER B Yeah. Anyway, after that, my life really didn't, didn't change overnight. I still continued in the same lifestyle for quite some time. Yeah, I was trying to continue down that path, but I knew that I'd. SPEAKER C Acceptance in Christ as my saviour. And he just flipped a switch in my mind that I didn't really like. I still kept on doing these things out of habit, especially smoking marijuana like I was. I thought I was going to do that. Until the day I died, I was. It was part of my whole life. I didn't. Yeah, I didn't transform overnight, but he, he changed how I experienced it. I just no longer enjoyed it anymore. It gave, gave me anxious. I felt like what I was doing is wrong. It didn't bring me comfort or relaxation. Didn't seem, seemed fun to me anymore. And I was just, just doing it because it was all I knew is what I've been doing for six, seven, eight years every day, so. But eventually, after months and months of trying to continue in this lifestyle, but not really experiencing it in the same way anymore, I slowly started to change a few of these things. I was very stubborn about it. But yeah, I eventually stopped smoking. Stopped smoking marijuana. Then I was still smoking cigarettes and vaping, and I still drank alcohol for a long time. I started getting. It got to a point where I decided to start going to church and investigating Christianity a little bit more. And because my dad was 7th day Adventist, I found a local 7th day Adventist church, went there, wasn't necessarily totally convinced. Over the next couple of years, yeah, I started to go to church and then I investigated some, some other churches and listened to different preachers and pastors and messages and theology as well. And I went to a couple of other different church services. And what really stood out to me is just like, I don't want to be offensive to any different denominations at all. But it was clear to me that the reverence and the holiness that I could see in the 7th day Adventist church compared to some of the other denominations and groups that I went to that were just on a different level. You know, these other groups were trying to incorporate rock music, and it was very emotional and, you know, waving your hands in the air and jumping up and down and repeating the same lyrics over and over again and rocking back and forth and stuff. And this is kind of reminding me more of the world I left behind than what I was trying to follow and what God was calling me to. And the more I looked into prophecy and stuff like that, and pastors and teachers taught me a little bit about what the Adventist church believes. And I doing some research on, in my own time, just on, on the, how the 7th day Adventist church was founded. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER C And, you know, the prophetic writings of Ellen White, it just became more and more clear to me that this is God's remnant church. And the other ones, although they might have, you know, elements of truth and stuff, they might be falling away in some other areas. And I couldn't argue with the evidence that was before me that the 7th day Adventist church, more than any other envelopes all of the truths of the Bible and all of the character of God and Christ, more than any other that I witnessed. SPEAKER A Yeah, that's really interesting how that you were able to pick up on just the general, I guess I would use the term fruit, the general atmosphere, if you will, of the church environment and how it was conducted. But in addition to that, the teachings. And so you've got your intellectual perspective coming in on this as well to reinforce your decision on what is the best way to go here. And I'm just curious, in all this time where you're investigating, you're not wanting to go to a denomination just because your dad's there. You're really wanting to seek the truth for yourself. Through this period, are you still struggling with those old habits, like those old addictions, or are they just spit by bit falling away? SPEAKER C Yeah, look, I certainly took a long time to give up different habits of my old life. And, yeah, I gave up marijuana for a period of time and then I dabbled in a little bit again because of maybe some influence of some. Some old friends or, you know, just a chance stumbling across a little bit of it or something and easily being sort of pulled into that lifestyle. And although God was transforming me, I was still being stubborn and rejecting him in some ways. I saw I was sort of had left the party scene behind, but I still wanted to maybe have a beer on the weekend out camping in the bush with. With friends and family. And, you know, sometimes that would eventuate into a few more than one and getting a bit tipsy and stuff like that. And although, you know, I was sort of getting a little bit better one step at a time, I still had 1ft in the world and didn't want to entirely let go of that. And yeah, I had. When I first sort of, I went. SPEAKER B Through my conversion, I had like an. SPEAKER C Initial strong zeal and desire to talk to people about it and share it. And although that was really hard for me because, you know, of that old desire to not want to. SPEAKER B Appear a. SPEAKER C Certain way to people into my peers, I still would try and share things here and there. But then the more that I tried to reject God's leading in bringing me out of addictions to drugs and alcohol and bad habits and stuff like that, the more that sort of slowed down and it became easy to. Yeah, I still went to church every week or most weeks, but it certainly become a little bit lukewarm. But then I met my wife Allie, and she was going through her own journey. At the start, she was sort of barely a Christian, a bit lukewarm, wanted to go just for the socialising and stuff like that. But I started to watch how she was being transformed and how her faith was growing. And that gave me encouragement and edification to seek Christ more myself, to try and put it more time into it. So it really, you know, wasn't until a little bit before my baptism that I started desiring to say, I'm gonna. I'm gonna actually just surrender some of these things over to God. I'm gonna stop holding onto them. All it takes is a choice. Like, no one's forcing me to have a beer or, you know, to do things like this. But if I'm going to stop, I can't just, like, hope that it happens by accident. I've got to actually decide no. I'm going to choose to say no and just follow what I know God is sort of trying to tell me to do. SPEAKER A Yeah, you've got to put both feet in the water, so to speak. Like jump in and go forward in that direction. So maybe, can we just hold the story there? I know you're coming to the end and to the. The main point where your life is really turned around. I just want to hold it there just so we can share our contact details. And then we're keen to hear this last stage of your story. So, yeah, for the sake of our listeners, take note of our contact details up next. So if you have any questions or comments about our programmes, please get in touch. SPEAKER D Thank you for joining us on by the word of their testimony. If you would like more information about today's programme, or if you have any questions, please contact three ABN Australia Radio by phoning 024-973-3456 or you can send an email to radio at three abnaustralia.org dot au. You can also contact us on our three ABN Australia Radio Facebook page. We look forward to hearing from you. SPEAKER A I hope you're able to catch those details. And we have been talking to Rob Keenan on, by the word of their testimony, and he's been sharing his story of how God really spoke to him and shook him up about the reality of the truth in this world, between the contrast between light and darkness, and between Christ and Satan and good and evil. And he had quite a tremendous experience where God just opened his eyes and impressed him with this truth. And it sounds like it took a while for you, Rob, to really have this truth sink into your heart and then start to transform your life. And it took a while for you to, I guess, come around to fully committing yourself onto the side of Christ and his ways. And so we're just talking about that before the break, about how you had things in your life that were still hanging on and you knew they weren't really compatible with a full commitment to Christ. And you were faced with the decision that if anything's going to change. I have to make a choice, and it's got to be a firm choice in the direction. So tell us a bit more about that and what that was like for you. SPEAKER C Yeah, look, the Bible says, choose this day whom you will serve. And I guess throughout probably almost five years of walking with Christ, a bit. But, you know, still not 100% surrendering to him. You still have that, that still small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking in your mind, verses like this. And, you know, who are you choosing? SPEAKER B Who are you worshipping? SPEAKER C Are you worshipping self and this world? And by default, Satan, because Satan loves for us to worship ourselves, to go our own way, to not follow God and his precepts and his statutes. But God gives us all a conscience. I think he's written his laws on our hearts. We know it's right or wrong. It comes to a point where, you know, how many blessings does God have to give me in my life? I have a beautiful son, a beautiful wife. You know, although our family is all of varying, different beliefs, you know, they're all loving and caring. There's so many people out there that are suffering so much worse than I have, have been through so much more than me. How long am I going to keep throwing his blessings in his face? How long am I going to keep rejecting him? Um, and. And he's still just unbelievably gracious to me. He still loves me, as, you know, now that I've accepted, accepted him, it's clear to me that these things aren't coincidences. There's no, no coincidence in, uh. If you believe in God, that, you know, that everything happens for a reason. So, um, I just, I just can't be, be pessimistic or self or desire to willingly be selfish when, you know, I consider what he's done for us, what he's done in my life, you know, personally and as well, just for the fallen race, for humanity, in sending his son to die on the cross for such a horrible experience and horrible death, you know, so much worse than anyone or anything that I have ever known is what he went through just for me. A person that has spent majority of his life in open rebellion to him. Even once I accepted him as my saviour, even once I accepted him as true and real and not just something that I was just going to ignore and push to the back of my mind that I was still in rebellion to him and he still died for me. There's no choice. Once you know the truth. How can you keep following a lie so you can. And I was. But I. I guess seeing the faith growing in my wife Allie and feeling like I was running away from him again, although I'd come so far and I watched him be transforming things in my life and I'd given up some addictions but not all. And not given up the mindset of actually surrendering to him and wanting to work for his kingdom rather than this world and my kingdom. Yeah, you know, guess I just decided to finally stop fighting again and of course God's still working on me. We're all, you know, a work in progress. But since, you know, leading up to baptism and being, you know, sort of making that decision with Ali, we knew that we wanted to do it together and, you know, she sort of asked, you know, are we going to do it? When are we going to do it? When? When should we do it? And, you know, finally decided to say yeah, because that was another thing, you know, while I wasn't baptised, I could reason in my mind that that was an excuse to not fully surrender to him. Oh, well, you're not baptised yet, so you can still sort of a little bit of fun here and there and, you know, you aren't fully accountable yet because you haven't actually died and risen again with him, you haven't been buried into his death and risen again and been born again if you haven't been baptised. That's what the Bible says. So we were baptised that he's baptised with? SPEAKER A Yeah. It's kind of like an excuse to sort of stay on the fence a little bit. Hey, like you were rationalising that in your mind. SPEAKER C That's. That's what I was using and although I knew that he was the truth, like rationally I understand the doctrine, understand the theology, I knew that he was the truth. Like, I've always. Since becoming a Christian, one of my favourite subjects is creation and like the creation evolution debate, I've loved watching hours and hours of people that talk about that sort of stuff and learning about like, scientists that actually support a creation account and a young earth creation. None of this like theistic evolution or anything, you know, I believe in that strongly. I know it's the truth. It's just a reality to me, just living in a headstrong religion, it was about. About knowledge for me for quite a long time and formalism in just going to church just because I knew God was real but not surrendering to him and wanting to live for him and to follow what I knew as his will for my life and not really wanting to share it as well. It was easy to hide it. Hide it under a bushel and just sort of keep it quiet. But when we did finally make the decision to get baptised, I knew that if I said yes to that, then I have to actually start living like it as well. I have to actually start surrendering some of those things in my life that I was holding on to and, you know. Yeah. Seeking it, you know, more deeply and more earnestly asking for his help to do it, because we can't do it on our own. I can't. You know, there's no righteousness within me, that I can actually walk in holiness completely by myself, that if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have to do it with him. I'm gonna have to have his help to do it. SPEAKER A Mm, absolutely. And for you to be able to change some of those, they were long standing habits in your life with those, the substances, I don't know if they were still some of the things hanging on, but some of these things were really, really strong for you and I imagine could have been quite a challenge to let go. But God, as you have said, has grace and power to help with that. And this was going to be a victory gained with him, not just you trying on your own strength. SPEAKER C Yeah, yeah, absolutely. SPEAKER A And so you came to the point of deciding that between you and your wife and went on a bit of a journey together, I guess, in preparing for baptism. How did your faith grow in that little period? SPEAKER C Yeah, look, I guess I just made the decision to renew that first love for Christ that I had. Like, I first had my conversion, you know, desire to maybe go out and share a little bit of literature, even though it's uncomfortable with people, people at some events, and talk about it with some neighbours and friends that you might come in contact with and not try and hide it so much, but to let God's light shine. We're here to be as vessels, not to. Not to just receive his grace and not share it with anyone else. SPEAKER A Yeah. So it became even more a full life commitment for you as you're preparing, just realising that every part of your life is now going to be set on Christ's side, and what is left to still get in that space is going to be a journey you're going to do with him. SPEAKER C That's right. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER C I guess I renewed that commitment and seek his help with the things that I'm struggling with, whether it be sharing about him, whether it be temptation to maybe have a drink or just take my focus away from him and focus more on worldly things or things like that, you know? Yeah, we need his help for. For all of these little things that might seem insignificant, but this is what builds our character. We're not gonna. Not gonna build our character without. Without seeking him. SPEAKER A Absolutely. Yeah. So true. It's an effort of cooperation with God, isn't it, to have that transformation? And so I'm just wondering, as we are finishing here, what would be something that you would like to share with our listeners that you've learned from your experience, whether it's a lesson or just something to encourage people who may be struggling with some of the things that you have wrestled with and. Yeah. Just wondering if there's anything you would like to share along those lines. SPEAKER C Yeah, look, I could pretty easily give a long list of what not to do. I've tried it all. I've been there, done that. I've rebelled openly against goddess, taken pretty much every drug you can think of to just see what it was like to see if it was good fun. But really, those are all just temporal things. And you can do those things or you can not do those things. Not doing them isn't going to save you. So that's not really what matters. And ultimately, the only thing that's going to transform you is him. And you're not going to be transformed by him if you don't know him. So if you don't know anything about God, if you don't actually feel that you have a relationship with him, if you don't feel that you can see him in the creation in the world out there, in all of the miracles that we experience daily, like just life teeming around us, the beauty of this world, the ability to create life and reproduction, all of these blessings and gifts that to me so clearly gives us, then you got to get on your knees and ask him to reveal himself to you, because if you don't know him, if you don't know he exists, how can you follow him? And if you truly, earnestly ask him to reveal himself to you, to show himself, if he's real, then he's going to show up. He's not going to reject that call for a meeting, for a relationship. So, yeah, you just got to. Got to ask him to show himself to you, to reveal himself to you, because if you know the truth, the truth will set you free. Christ said that. SPEAKER A So, yeah, absolutely. SPEAKER C Seek truth and seek to know whether he's real, whether he's there, whether he cares about you. SPEAKER A That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think that will be some thoughts which will really be encouraging for people to make that decision to say, seek after God. And look, we can think about how he sought after you even when you were rebelling, and he got your attention, which was amazing, and spun you around completely, and took you on a journey in the opposite direction, which is just so inspiring. So just thank you so much for your willingness to share that today. And I know that our listeners will be very blessed. SPEAKER B Awesome. SPEAKER C Thanks so much for having us. And, yeah, I really, really pray that this is a blessing for anyone that hears it. Yeah, there's a God out there that cares for you and he's coming back soon. He's not going to let the evil in this world go on forever. He cares than we can ever imagine. The more than a mother loves her child, he cares. SPEAKER A Amen. Thank you for sharing. So you've been listening to by the word of their testimony, I am your host, Kaysie Vokurka, and our guest today has been Rob Keenan, who has shared an amazing story of what God has done in his life. You know, a person's testimony inspires faith, shows us that God is real and that he cares about us. So may God bless you today as you enjoy his blessings in your life. Speaker B: You've been listening to a production of 3BN Australia radio.