Interview with Rod Maller - 2305

SPEAKER A Jesus worthy know revelation twelve, verse eleven. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives to the death. Welcome to by the word of their testimony, and here is your host, Kaysie Vakirka. Hello and welcome to the program. So glad you have joined us today, and today you'll very much enjoy the story from our special guest, Rod Maller. Thank you so much for coming in today to share your experience. SPEAKER B Thanks for having me. SPEAKER A Yeah. Now tell me about yourself and what you're doing now. SPEAKER B Currently I'm studying theology at Avondale University. Studying the Ministry. SPEAKER A Okay. And you've been doing that for a little while now? SPEAKER B Yeah, this is my fourth year, so graduate in a few months. SPEAKER A Oh, that's so exciting. Praise the Lord, finally through all of that phase and moving on to the. SPEAKER B Next studying through COVID. SPEAKER A Yeah, that would have been that was a one of a kind experience. So obviously you're here in Avondale area, in Kirinbong area in New South Wales. Have you always been here or where have you come from in your life experience? SPEAKER B Yes, I grew up in Queensland. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER B Yeah. So Western Queensland I was born in Toowoomba and then did my high schooling out at a place called I've heard of that place. Oh, wow. Not many people have heard of whoop. SPEAKER A Whoop in New Queensland isn't? SPEAKER B Yeah. And then as a young adult, I moved into Brisbane, obviously, because that's where the work is. SPEAKER A Your what was your home life like? SPEAKER B Yeah, so I grew up in a Catholic background, quite a devout Catholic family. We went to church every Sunday and we're Irish background, so I'm the eldest of six. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B My mum was the second eldest of nine. So big family and family events always seem to revolve around religious events. So first Communion and Christenings and Confirmations and all those sort of things because you had lots of cousins. And then there's Christmas and Easter. Our religious experience was heavily interwoven into our way of family and culture and how we all got together as cousins and family. SPEAKER A Interesting. How did you find that environment for you spiritually? Did you form a connection with God through that time yourself that was meaningful to you? SPEAKER B Yeah, absolutely. From a very young age, I really took to religion. It was my favorite class at school. I went to a Catholic school and I really loved religious studies. I did better at that than all the other subjects. And as a teenager, I was a youth leader. There's a youth movement within the Catholic Church called Antioch, and yeah, I was a youth leader in that, and I really resonated with my faith. SPEAKER A And so obviously that interest is still continuing. You've been studying that in recent times as well, but did you remain in that Catholic faith community you mentioned about how you had a strong relationship with God during that time. Did that change over the years, like what happened through your early adult life? SPEAKER B Yeah, so when I moved to Brisbane, I guess the network that I'd been involved with in terms of my faith growing up, I'd moved away from and moved into the bigger city, and I found it a bit hard to reconnect. And there was other distractions, obviously, as well, being 18 and 19 years old. And so I did drift a little bit, but I still retained my sense of purpose and my sense of who I was in terms of my religious beliefs. And I guess it all changed for me. When I met a girl, it usually. SPEAKER A Changes a lot of things. SPEAKER B And it just so happened that she was 7th day Adventist, and so we started dating and we'd been dating for about three weeks, so the relationship was very new and I took her out for lunch and I was quite a serious guy. And so I sat her down and I said to her, now, if we're ever to get married, you have to become Catholic and we have to send our children to a Catholic school. SPEAKER A That was quite something to say to a 7th Adventist girl. SPEAKER B And she was quite smart with the way that she dealt with that. She's now a lawyer, which shouldn't surprise me. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B But she said to me, do you believe in the Bible? And I said, yeah, absolutely. She said, do you believe it's the word of God? I said, yeah, absolutely. She said, well, if you can convince me, according to the Bible, that Catholicism is correct, then I'll convert. And in my mind, I thought, hey, you'll be Catholic by the end of the week. SPEAKER A There you go. Yeah. SPEAKER B But to give you some context into the background of why I had that sort of mentality, I guess, is my grandmother, for example, was a twin. She was a twin, and so her twin sister. And as twins growing up, they were very close and always got on. But twin sister, my great aunt, married a non Catholic, and my grandmother never spoke to her twin sister again until the day she died. Is that so was severed from the family. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B And so coming into this relationship, I was bringing that experience into that, no, I can't marry someone who's not Catholic. SPEAKER A Right. So in your mind, you were thinking you like this girl, but the only way for this to work is if she comes to become a Catholic, because you don't want that same thing happening where there's this division in the family over you marrying someone who's not of the same faith. SPEAKER B And it's a large Irish Catholic family, and I'm the first born of all of my cousins. SPEAKER A Set the benchmark. SPEAKER B Yeah. SPEAKER A Role model. SPEAKER B I was close to my grandparents and so, yeah, there was all that pressure. SPEAKER A There from family honor in the midst of it all, as well as loyalty, to your faith. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A Yeah. I can certainly appreciate that you would sense that very strongly. SPEAKER B Yeah. And then I guess the first thing that surprised me, I guess, in the fact that led me on this journey was the fact that when I looked at the Ten Commandments, it was the 9th and 10th Commandment that really got me searching, because I believed that the 9th Commandment was, thou shalt not cover thy neighbor's wife. And the 10th was, Thou shalt not cover thy neighbor's goods. And it surprised me to learn that that was actually one commandment yes. And that it had been split into two. And number two had been taken out about idol worship. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B And that set me on the path to discover what else had been changed and misinterpreted. And it was quite a shaky time for me because I'd grown up believing that my spiritual house, my faith house, had been built on a very solid foundation. And I started to see that foundation crumble and everything that I had grown up leaving and knowing I had to requestion and reanalyze. And so I was just so hungry for truth. I was doing two to three Bible studies per week with different Adventist pastors, because this pastor would say, I've only got time for one session, but if you want more, then I can connect you with another part. And so I was just absorbing I was reading as much material as I could get. I'd go home from work, I'd watch DVDs. Back then it was VHS videos. SPEAKER A But you were really searching. SPEAKER B I was craving to know the truth, because I don't know if you've been through an experience where you believed that what you knew was absolute. And then when you find out that it's not that's very unsettling, you have to relearn everything that you thought that you already knew. And so, yeah, it was a very interesting journey to go on. And during that period of time, I really felt that my focus was upward, was heavenward. I was pleading for God to reveal truth to me, and he was giving me light as he knew that I could handle it. And one of the beautiful ways that he worked in my life was around the Sabbath. So I used to work in retail, in electrical retail. And Saturday was our busiest day, and I was in a tussle to try, and how do I not work the Sabbath? And so I applied for some jobs. Now, at this particular time, unemployment was up at around 1011 percent, and so there was fierce competition for jobs. And so I applied for this job at Commonwealth Bank as a loans manager. So it wasn't an entry level position, it was a middle management role. And I didn't have a university degree, no experience in finance, but it was a five day a week job. And so I put in an application, and there was well over 1000 applicants for this job and I thought, I'm not even going to be considered. But anyway, I put in an application and anyway, I got called in for an interview and then another interview, and then another interview, four interviews, and I'm like, how is this even possible? And so I got shortlisted down to the top three candidates. SPEAKER A Really? Wow. SPEAKER B We're in the interview and the two senior managers are sitting there and I'm sitting on this small chair, and they went through the interview process. I remember they said to me, what's your greatest weakness? And I just said, straight off the COVID I said, oh, it's paperwork. And they just looked at each other and said, you realize you're going for a bank job? SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B And then an interesting thing started to happen is they started to justify things. Oh, computers are really starting to come to the fore now, and so paperwork is not going to be as much of an issue. So that started to justify the job and I got the position and my best mate at that time had studied economics at Deakin University and he was applying for those kinds of jobs and he couldn't get it. And, he know, very jealous and quite frustrated that I have got none of that background. And I was picked and I said it was all God. God wanted to show me how important the Sabbath is for Him. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B And so I believe that when you're going through that journey and God wants to reveal to you the truth in his word, he can work amazing things in your life to be able to allow that to happen. SPEAKER A Yeah, that's true. And isn't it incredible that he's working through these bank management that's right. Lawyers, to bring you to the place, just so God can show you this thing? I mean, isn't that such a testimony to the power of God in what he can do? SPEAKER B And if he opens a door, there's nothing that you can do to close it and there's nothing anyone else can do to close it. SPEAKER A So you took the job? SPEAKER B Yeah, obviously I took the job. SPEAKER A And so you were working in the bank then? For a while? SPEAKER B Yeah, I worked in the bank for a little while. But the most important thing about that was just the fact that it was a stage in my spiritual journey that God was revealing to me how important his truth is to Him. And it was a step by step process. He didn't just bomb me with all the truth in one hit because it was too much. It was a process of going through that. I made a mistake in my journey, though, and I've taken full responsibility for this mistake. And that was the fact that after about three years of my journey, I took my focus off God and I saw the congregation and there were some unsavory things happening at church and there was some at that stage. God hadn't opened up the health message yet to me, and so I was still eating some products that were not in line with our message yet, but God hadn't taken me to that point yet. SPEAKER A So just to clarify, when you're saying church, are you now in Adventist Church? SPEAKER B I was worshipping every Sabbath. SPEAKER A Okay, so you've moved away now from the Catholic Church? SPEAKER B Yeah, absolutely. SPEAKER A Understanding of new church. SPEAKER B I had been attending the Sabbath Church for about two and a half to three years. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER B And so God had just been leading me along this journey and I was constantly studying, and my life was completely different at that point than what it was when I came in. I remember I went to a restaurant one night and there was a few people from church there, but they hadn't seen me. And I saw them eating the same products that they were telling me that I shouldn't be eating. But there was a lot of other issues as well happening within the church. But I guess that was sort of like one of the straws that broke the camel's back. And I said, this church, they have the truth, but they don't have the love of Christ. And so I walked away. I made the mistake of walking away from the Adventist Church, and I still believed that what I'd learned was truth, but I wanted to find a church that lived that truth. And so I left. I got into business, I got into politics and had had a successful business, and life was going along and I got into the corporate world. And I had a good friend, and I guess I was in the wilderness for about seven or eight years. And I had this good friend who was a musician, very good musician, but at that stage she had black hair with a red streak through her hair. Played in the pubs. And so we'd hang out. And one day I was having a coffee with her younger sister and just at a coffee shop that she was running. And it was after closing time and we were just cleaning up, whatever, and this guy walks in off the street offering to do tarot card readings. And this girl said to this guy, nah, sorry, not interested. And he left. And I said to her, I said, oh, why didn't you get your cards read? Maybe you can find out about what's going to happen in your future. And curiously, she said to me, she said, oh, no, it's against my belief. Now, she could have said, no, I'm not interested, or, no, I don't want to do that. But she said, It's against my belief. And it just straightaway triggered something in me. I said, what do you mean, against your belief? She goes, yeah, no, it's just against my belief. I said, what do you mean against your belief? For me, I was like, no, what is this? And she said, well, actually, I'm 7th Day Venice almost fell on the floor. SPEAKER A You came across them again? SPEAKER B And I said, So you're telling me your sister is also Adventist? And she said, yeah, actually, we've just started going back to church. You should join us. I went, no chance. Anyway, I really praise the Lord that they didn't pester me, but we were good friends. And so every now and again they'd just say, you should come. Just kept that door open. Yeah, gently, but just kept that door open. SPEAKER A No. SPEAKER B Five months passed, and this is a message to all of those who have friends out there who aren't Adventist, who you've been prodding to come. Don't give up patience. Five months passed and I was working in the corporate world at that stage at Fuji Xerox. And so I was sort of around a lot of guys that had a lifestyle that many people look up to and desire and are chasing, but something was missing. I felt this hole in my heart that the things in the world just were not filling. And so I messaged my friend, I said to her, hey, next Sabath, I'll come to church with you. And this was on a Sunday. And she said, oh, great. Okay, great. So we made arrangements and I was going to meet her there. So the week sort of just came along, and at that stage, I was living inner city Brisbane. I had a place where I had excess rooms, so I lent out the rooms to international students. And a friend of mine that week had asked if he could borrow my car because I lived in a city, so I didn't really use it too much. And so I'd given my friend my car. We had a going away party on the Friday night for one of our students who was going back to their home country on the Monday. And so Saturday morning come after the Sunday. I really didn't give it any more thought about Saturday. And I woke up. Yeah, I woke up Saturday morning and the Holy Spirit reminded me, hey, don't forget you're coming to church today. And I woke up and I was hungover and no car, it's raining. I looked at my phone and I had a text message from my friend to say that she wouldn't be able to go to that church today, that she had to go to her mother's church, which was 40 minutes away, drive. So that was out of the question. So my friend wasn't even going to the church. And the Holy Spirit said, no, you've got to go. SPEAKER A Wow. That would have been a struggle. SPEAKER B It began this battle in my mind, and I'm arguing with the Holy Spirit, saying, no, I don't want to go. I'm hungover. And the Holy Spirit will say, Go and have a shower. I've got nothing to wear. Just wear jeans in a you know, I don't have a car. Take the train. It's raining. Take an umbrella. Like every objection that I gave to the Holy Spirit, man, he just kept giving me a response. So reluctantly, I got up, I got changed, shower, and picked up my umbrella. I'm walking down to the train station, and I must have seemed like some crazy guy walking down the street, because in my mind, I've got this conversation, this dialogue happening. I'm resisting. I'm resisting. I don't want to go because of all of these circumstances. Well, the Holy Spirit keep prompting me, keep prompting me, and I'm on the train. I get on the train, I'm like, I don't want to be here. This is crazy. I should just go back home. Now, the church that I was going to was Brisbane Central Church. And close to that church are a number of backpackers hostels. And anyway, I'm walking along, and I'm still not over the line yet. I'm still resisting. I'm moving forward, but there's this struggle happening within me now. I'm on one side of the street, and the church is on the other side of the street. So I'm probably still about 40 meters, 40 or 50 meters away from the entrance, from the gate to the church, across a street, down another footpath. And I'm wearing jeans and a T shirt and sneakers. Don't look like I'm heading to church. And this lady walks down. She walks from the church. She crosses the street. She walks down the footpath, comes up to me, stretches out her hand. And what do you think? She says something about welcome to church. SPEAKER A Or come to church or something. SPEAKER B She says, welcome to church. SPEAKER A Welcome to church. And she's out on the. SPEAKER B Not. You know, I do not resemble anybody who's about to attend a church service. Later, she revealed to me that the Holy Spirit had prompted her to go down and do that, and that got me across the line. That was the moment that got me across the line to at least come in, because I didn't know anybody. My friend who was supposed to be meeting there wasn't going to be there. And so that was the deciding moment that really got me across the line. And so the Holy Spirit just kept working every step of the way. So I came in, and I started feeling a little bit more comfortable, but I was still struggling. And I'm sitting there by myself. I don't know anybody. I'm just sitting in one of the back pews. And there happened to be one pastor that I'd had a lot of respect for and in my first experience with the church. And he was retired at that time. And so this is a little bit further down the track now, and this was Mother's Day's weekend, and he came in as the visiting pastor. The regular pastor was handling two churches, and so the other pastor was somewhere else. And this guy had been invited to be the pastor. And I'm like, wow. Okay. That's interesting, because any pastor that could have been preaching that particular Sunday when I was going to attend church, it had to be this one pastor who I had a lot of respect for. SPEAKER A It was a Sabbath, right? SPEAKER B Of course. And so he comes up and he begins his sermon, and he said, I know that today is Mother's Day. Mother's Day weekend. And typically the message would be revolved around women in the Bible or the role of women's ministry or the importance of that. But the Holy Spirit actually spoke to me, and he was very specific. He said, The Holy Spirit spoke to me this Wednesday and instructed me to speak something very different. Everyone's ears are pricked, obviously, especially mine. What's going on? He goes, firstly, on behalf of the 7th Day Adventist Church, I'd like to apologize for everything that we've ever done to cause anybody to leave our church. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B Immediately, I felt a weight lift off my chest. It was yeah. Brought me to tears right then and there. But God knew what I needed to hear, and he said, we need to remember that we are fishers of men. We are not cleaners of men. It's our job to introduce people to Christ. It's not our job to change them or clean them. That's the role of the Holy Spirit. And it just spoke volumes to me. Six weeks later, I got baptized. SPEAKER A Wow. Praise God. Isn't that so amazing how that sermon was right for you? That was a message to bring you back. SPEAKER B As soon as I'd made that commitment on the Sunday to come, the Holy Spirit put in motion a whole sequence of events that would wow. SPEAKER A To draw you back. Yeah. That's powerful, isn't it? What God did. Just when you'd made that decision, you set your will on his side. He's like, okay, we can work together now. SPEAKER B Yes. SPEAKER A Let's do this. Yeah. SPEAKER B When I got baptized, my key text was Matthew 633. Because I'd been doing things my way. I wanted to set up in my mind, I'd wanted to set up a kingdom here on Earth, and then later on, I would give my life to Christ. But says in that text that, seek first the kingdom of God in his righteousness and everything else will be then added to you. SPEAKER A Yeah. Wow. Because your situation, like, from outside of church, your everyday life situation, I imagine would have been fairly, reasonably successful. In that space, you've had all you needed. You just had the emptiness inside. SPEAKER B I had good networks of people that I knew, and I was very ambitious, and I was heading towards a particular place. SPEAKER A Yeah. And then God spoke to you in the midst of that. And that text represents the refocusing that happened in your mind. SPEAKER B I had the car before the horse. SPEAKER A Yes. Wow. So this is a pivotal part of your change in direction, your journey. You're growing back in that space. So where did that lead to next? SPEAKER B The challenging thing was that I had no friends or network in the church in terms of a broader community. I had one friend, but there was a strong pull from my social network and my business network outside of the church as well, and that was a lifestyle that God was calling me to leave. And so there was some incredible tension there. I had very little influence from the church side of things, but really strong influence from outside of the church. SPEAKER A There's a big call for you, then. SPEAKER B Yeah. SPEAKER A Step away from. SPEAKER B God. Well, there was an opportunity to go and listen to an American evangelist who came to Australia, and some of the church members invited me to go, and so that was in Kingscliffe. And so I went. And this was six weeks after I'd been baptized. And at that series, I felt the call to do two years of mission service. I felt God placed that burden in my heart because that was an opportunity where he could take me out of the situation that I was in and place me into an environment where I was surrounded by Adventists and I was able to continue that journey of faith and learn to rely on Him. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B And so, yeah, I decided to listen to that call and to heed that call, because when I got baptized, I said, Lord, I've been doing everything my way for the last 1520 years. I said, Lord, you take control wherever you want me to go. Whatever you want me to do, you're going to go. Just send me. Just do what you will. SPEAKER A Surrendered. You gave it all to God. SPEAKER B I gave it all to God. And interestingly, I used to suffer migraines because I'm someone who really liked to take control, and so I had an immense amount of stress. It was after my baptism when I just surrendered everything into God's hands. Since my baptism, I've never again suffered another migraine. SPEAKER A Is that so? SPEAKER B Yeah. SPEAKER A That's incredible. SPEAKER B And so initially, I thought that I got to choose where I wanted to be a thought. Okay. And the person who was speaking had been working in South America. I thought, oh, yeah, I've got friends who are South American. I think that's a really nice place to go. And the culture is very interesting. And so in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to go to South America. And I reached out to that evangelist and made some communication, and then the global financial collapse hit. SPEAKER A That was 2008. Yes. SPEAKER B And all the doors into South America just sort of started to close. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B And I started to question God, I thought you wanted me to do this to be a missionary. And I received the confirmation that, yes, he wants me to be a missionary, but I don't get to choose the. SPEAKER A Still, some of those leftovers of that mindset of being in control is still hanging on. That's right. SPEAKER B God opened up an opportunity for me to go to oh, a very different place to America. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B I mean, it's our closest neighbor and I had previously traveled the world. I'd been through Europe and America and different parts of Asia. Indonesia was one country that was not on my radar at all. And I guess that was heavily influenced by what I'd seen in media. My concept of Indonesia was this radically Muslim country because this was just after the Bali bombings and then the terrible tsunami, and I didn't know anybody who was Indonesian and I had no contacts there. And so it was like this one country in the world that was literally a black hole for me. A good friend of mine was the director of investment for Investment into Australia, and he'd been based in the New York consulate. And so he had a very broad network. And even him I said to him, do you know anybody in Indonesia? And he said no. I don't know. So it was just this place know, I hadn't considered it wasn't on my radar, and I had no earthly supports that I could draw from. SPEAKER A There no connection. SPEAKER B The perfect place for God. SPEAKER A Yeah, you had to totally rely on God for this one. SPEAKER B And so I thought, oh, let me ask my mum, because my mum's still Catholic and she didn't attend my baptism. So I said to her, mom, what do you think about this? If I go to Indonesia as a missionary and I was expecting to get a negative, she said, I think that would be great for you. That sounds really I'm like, okay. I didn't expect that. Every obstacle I tried to throw in front of God, he just smashed it. SPEAKER A With something you didn't expect. Totally the opposite. SPEAKER B And everything that I thought would be a closed door or red light, it became an open door and a green light. And so he made it abundantly clear that that was where he wanted me to be. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B And it was such a blessing. Indonesia was just amazing. I met my wife there as well and yeah, it was incredible. There were certainly some challenges and that especially the first twelve months to 18 months. I had been used to a particular lifestyle in Australia and now I was cut off from this was prior FaceTime or anything like that. So there was no immediate contact back with Australia. If I wanted to call, I had to get one of those phone cards and rub off the number on the back and I had no money. That was expensive and so I didn't know the language and so really allowed me a chance to spend time with God. And I read through the whole Conflict of the Ages series and other materials and it just gave me a chance to really put all my dependence on God. It was definitely challenging and. I struggled at times, what am I doing here? Should just go back home. But praise the Lord, he got me through, and I'm definitely richer for that experience. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER B Initially, I'd planned only to go for two years, but at the end of my time doing the mission service, I ended up getting into business and remaining in Indonesia for ten years. Two turned into ten. SPEAKER A Quite an amazing change. SPEAKER B We were part of planting two churches in Jakarta, so we were heavily involved in ministry there. It's a very different place to do ministry. Being a majority Muslim country, proselytization is illegal. You can't openly promote Christianity or the Bible. The way that you go about evangelism. SPEAKER A There is very different. Yeah. SPEAKER B But it was such a rewarding experience. SPEAKER A Yeah. And I guess through all of this time, god was really working to enrich and establish a strong foundation for your faith. 100% now, because obviously you didn't have many distractions, did you, from your former connections in your life? SPEAKER B Yeah. And one of the big things that I noticed was that once I started up business in Indonesia, I wanted to do it God's way. So I'd done business my way. And now, you know, you take the reins. This is your business, this is for your glory, you lead the way. And so yeah, he blessed us tremendously. And it was a wonderful experience. We had challenges, of course, but you can just see God's hand moving all the way. SPEAKER A Yeah. And you were able to do business without having the extra pressure of migraines. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A Exactly. You could handle the stresses without having that heavy weight on you, because you're in it with God. He's carrying the brunt of it, and you're just trusting Him. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A His care, his providence, his leading. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A In all of that. It's a wonderful thing, isn't it, to have God right in the midst of your everyday practical life experience. SPEAKER B Definitely. SPEAKER A And that, you know, you're working together with Him even in something that's just business. SPEAKER B Yes. SPEAKER A That's a very powerful thing. SPEAKER B Yeah. So we planted a couple of churches there. We were very heavily involved in the ministry and our life revolved around church there. And we'd started a family. We had a daughter. SPEAKER A Okay. Beautiful. SPEAKER B And it's interesting when you give your life to God, sometimes the calls that he places on your heart, they don't make sense. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B In human thinking, you're thinking that, this is the best direction for me. But God sometimes has other plans. He did that with me for Indonesia and then in December 2018, and things were we were quite established. As I mentioned, we'd had a daughter, and at that stage, she was three going on four in early 2019. And this church that we started was only one year old, but it had grown from just a core group of six to we had over 100 people regularly coming. We were baptizing every month. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B We had a very strong supporting ministry that was we did depression counseling and good. In Indonesia, 65% of the population are smokers. SPEAKER A Wow. Yeah. SPEAKER B So we ran the Adventist five day quit smoking programs as well. SPEAKER A Fantastic. SPEAKER B And from that we met people's needs, created those relationships, and then they wanted the desire to know what was driving us, and so that was how we were able to reach out to so in that community. SPEAKER A Using this method of health was the best way to draw into an understanding of the truth. That's interesting. It's with the entering wedge that's right. Concept, which we are familiar with. SPEAKER B Yeah. Well, Ellen White says, Christ's method alone is the one that works. SPEAKER A Jesus use that way. SPEAKER B And so when we meet people with their needs and address their physical needs, their temporal needs, then they're able to find out more. Oh, so what's driving? SPEAKER A Yeah. Why are you doing this? SPEAKER B Yeah. Because it was illegal for us to be the ones to introduce the Bible to them. But if they asked us, then it's open, we're open, we're allowed to share. And so by creating those relationships and meeting people where their needs are, then they had that desire to want to know. And from that, we were baptizing every month. And the church was growing rapidly, and I felt like, this is where God wants me to be. And then, December 2018, god puts this burden in my heart. At that stage, I was very involved in the background, and that's where I like I don't particularly like being front and center. I like to be in the background making everything happen, making everything happen behind the scenes. And God put this burden in my heart to share to share my testimony or to preach. And I'm like, I feel uncomfortable with this. Over there, there's a group that do a program. It's quite similar to, I think here we have Arise, and over there they have one called Yesiah. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER B Yeah. And they're very similar type of programs. SPEAKER A Discipleship training, sort of enrichment program. SPEAKER B Exactly. I did a lot of theological training and preaching, so I spoke to my friend who was our pastor at the church, and I said, oh, what do you think? God's placed this burden in my heart. I don't know what to do with it. I'd been thinking, this might be where he's asking me to go, but straight off the coffee goes, Just go to know. And the only thing that I had that was denoting me as an Australian was my passport. I'd left Australia, had no bank accounts, I had no driver's license, Medicare, nothing, just my passport. And so it wasn't on my radar to move back to Australia at that time. And we were so invested in this ministry, which was growing so fast, but he was very sure, and I'm like, Are you sure? He goes, Yep. If God's put that burden in your heart, just go to Avondar. And he'd never been to Australia. SPEAKER A Wow. SPEAKER B And so we prayed about it. And I said to know, God, I committed when I got baptized that I would give my life to you and I would follow wherever you lead, I know you've put this burden in my heart. I'm happy to follow. Just you lead the way. This isn't from me. If you want this to happen, you make it happen. Be careful what you pray for. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B So that week after I'd prayed that we'd had a large client I think you have Guardian Pharmacy here. Yeah, that was one of my clients over there. And we'd had them for three and a half years and we did corporate training. And that week I prayed that week the CEO rings me and says, hey, Rod, we want to move in a different direction in terms of our training. And I'd drawn a red line in the sandwich because face to face training was something that I believed was the one that produced the best results. And I didn't want to go with virtual training, but they wanted to experiment and go with virtual training. And I said, I can't deliver the outcomes that I want with virtual training. And so they moved in a different direction. I'm like, okay. SPEAKER A Yeah. Wow. SPEAKER B But God continued to provide, but he closed certain doors just to send a signal that, this is where I want you to go. SPEAKER A Time for a change. SPEAKER B And so part of my prayer was also that if I was going, that my wife had to be just as convicted because she'd never actually lived outside of Indonesia. She had a corporate job as well, and she was on a track to be promoted. And so for us to move to Australia, she had to walk away from all of that as well. And we had a young daughter, so. SPEAKER A It had to be a calling for. SPEAKER B Both of you, didn't it? SPEAKER A Really? SPEAKER B That's right. It couldn't be a half. Half. SPEAKER A Exactly. SPEAKER B And so I said, my wife needs to be 100% convicted of this as well. And so it was just amazing to see how God moved in her life to place that conviction in her heart as well, because it didn't come straight away. Certain things had to happen in her life for her to have that conviction as well. SPEAKER A Yeah. Wow. So let's just hold the story there. It's like on the brink of another new change to bring it to where you are today. We're just going to pause for a little break so that we can let our listeners know how you can contact us. If you have any questions or want to know more details about the program, please contact us at the following details thank you for joining us on by the word of their testimony. If you would like more information about today's program or if you have any questions, please contact three. ABN Australia Radio by Phoning 024-97-3456 or you can send an email to [email protected]. You can also contact us on our three ABN Australia Radio Facebook page. We look forward to hearing from you. Welcome back to by the word of their testimony I'm your host, Kaysie for Kirka, and you've been listening to Rod Maller share his story with us today. We're so glad you've been able to join us today, Rod, and he's been sharing about how he was brought up in Queensland in a Catholic sort of environment and then went through quite a journey, a long journey of learning new truths. And God was really drawing at his heart to come to a place where he well, you became an Adventist, gave your heart to God, and then it's been a real journey of surrender, letting God take control, letting God lead you. And he's taking you through some very interesting directions that you weren't even expecting. Quite off your radar. You're in Indonesia, ended up being there for ten years, and now you've had another call come almost out of the blue, like you didn't see it coming, to go to Avondale, back to Australia, a country you thought you'd left for good, but to come back here to gain, obviously, some more training for ministry. And so tell me a little bit about how this transpired. You were saying it needed to be a calling for yourself and your wife, and that was a journey. How did that play out for you? SPEAKER B Yeah, I think for me it was crucial that as a family together, we journey together. And so I didn't want to come here and study by myself and leave her there or anything like that. And so and she also wanted to be with me as well. And so we prayed about that. And again, God just worked amazing things in her life personally, to be able to convict her that she's also a part of this calling and that God wants her to be here as well. So we moved here in September 2019. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER B And some of my friends back in Indonesia were like, what are you doing? You're crazy. You've got everything happening here, why are you moving now? And then you don't have anything lined up, no jobs, nothing. You have to start from scratch again. SPEAKER A In a new community. SPEAKER B Yeah. And literally set yourself back up again. And I just said, this is where God is calling. And so six months later, when COVID hit, the same friends were going, do you have a crystal ball? Did you know this was coming? SPEAKER A God got you over here, didn't he? Otherwise you would have been stuck for a few years. SPEAKER B Well, and this is the thing, if we had have just been a little bit disobedient in the fact that if we had delayed and said, Lord, we'll answer your call, but just give us another six months, or maybe if I had said, okay, I'll go first, and then my wife will join me. In six months time, the borders would have been closed and I would have been separated from my wife for who knows how long. SPEAKER A It reminds me of a statement, success about success. God gives opportunities, but success depends on the use made of them. And God gave you this window of opportunity and praise God, you moved right through it. SPEAKER B Yeah. When God places things in our heart, oftentimes it makes no sense to us in our human perspectives because it runs counternarrative to what the world expects or even to what we think is the right path. But God has a path for each and every one of us and so heeding that call is always a blessing. Yes. And when we moved, obviously there was challenges. It took time to reassimilate and to get established and settled and we're trying to do that all at the same time with no jobs and trying to figure out how we're going to get some money in. And it was an incredibly stressful time, but God was there, the holster, he kept providing blessings and it was just amazing the way that God worked. And so we find ourselves now four years down the track and we're ready to start a new adventure again soon. And so one of the things that I've learned in our journey is that as Christians, there's nothing wrong with having an idea of your future or having plans and direction in your life. But we always need to have that flexibility. That God's plan may differ from what our long term plan is. And we need to have the flexibility to be able to when God places that call in our heart, that we can respond. We're not so entrenched in our own desire to go where we want to go that we miss the call that God has put in our hearts. SPEAKER A Yeah. That's quite a powerful thing because it's so easy to have your own ideals of what you want to do and be and achieve. I can personally resonate with that a lot. And God just says, no, this way you're like, oh, even if you get used to that. SPEAKER B And it may not even be like my experience with the ministry in Indonesia. We were doing God's work there and I really felt that this was the purpose that God had called us for. But God still had a different plan. And so sometimes we can be doing very good things and work for the kingdom, but God can redirect us and bring us somewhere else. SPEAKER A He'll change that. Yeah. Which is powerful to think about it like that simply because oftentimes we think, oh, if you're doing something that's not for the kingdom, of course God would call you away. You need to be willing to leave that. But what if it's something that's perfectly good and in your case, it's even prospering and you think it's important for you to be here to just keep this going and God says, no, come this way now. SPEAKER B And I think one of the lessons from that is the fact that God's work doesn't rely on any particular person. That church is still flourishing today and it didn't require any particular person to be there because it's God's church, they're his people and he will direct things as he sees fit. So to be humbled enough to realize that while God wants to use us wherever he places us, that may not be a long term placement. It can be a short term or a long term placement, but it all depends on God's will. SPEAKER A Yeah, I like how you put that because it really changes the focus, doesn't it? And for everyone involved, you become acutely aware that it is all for God's glory. He is the one in charge here. It's up to Him to do these things and he's going to sustain it. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A And that, as you say, can be really humbling. But at the same time, I would say that that would give us a huge sense of peace because you know that it's not up to us. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A We're dependent on someone who is tremendous in power and wisdom, far above the things of this world and human thoughts. SPEAKER B Sometimes we lose sight. We can be so vested in what we're doing, which is good, but we think to ourselves, or other people may even think that without this person involved, this whole ministry will fall apart. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B It all hinges around this person, but no ministry should ever hinge around a person. It only hinges around christ. SPEAKER A Yeah. And that's a model for sustainability, isn't it? SPEAKER B Absolutely. SPEAKER A It's going to continue. The Lord lives forever. It'll go along as long as he. SPEAKER B Is the ultimate in secession planning. SPEAKER A Yes, that's it. I love that. That's a really good thought to have in mind and so relevant, as you say, for everyone in ministry to just be mindful of that, that God is in control. So thank you so much for sharing that and such powerful lessons for us to take away. And thank you for sharing your journey. I think that it's very relevant and we were talking before about this, that everyone comes from different walks of life. And you might come from a person, a walk of life that's not even got any Christian upbringing, but you may come from one that has got a real, solid, sincere hold on faith, which is what you had. And yet even in that situation, god still works in a very individual way to lead you on a journey to grow closer to Him, to grow to deeper understandings of truth and to just reveal more and more of what it means to follow Him and surrender fully to Him and learn of Him. And so your story has very well reflected that and I know our listeners will resonate. And so I really want to thank you for coming to share with us today. And thank you also to our listeners for joining in on the program. By the word of their testimony and a testimony, a person's testimony is truly evidence that God is real and that he's interested in us and that he cares about every aspect of our lives. So if you have a story that you have experienced of what God has done for you, share it today with someone. Not only will you be blessed sharing, they will be blessed hearing as well. And so, until next time, I'm your host, Kaysie Vokurka. And may God bless you richly. Jesus. SPEAKER B You've been listening to a production of three ABN, Australia radio.